Does your family know what you do for a living?

This is a conversation that often arises among podcast producers. It’s become a joke, really — they know we make podcasts, but do they really know what that means?

On a whim, I decided to call up a few people in my circle and see what they’ve picked up over the last few years. Those calls (and in one case, kitchen chat) are transcribed below. I approached this as a lighthearted exercise, but the answers were more revealing than I expected.

Whether you’re a podcast producer, a would-be podcast producer, a podcast enjoyer, or something else entirely — ask your loved ones what they think you do every day. You might learn something about yourself in the process.

These interviews have been edited and condensed.

Cathy, mother

Michal: When people ask you what I do for a living, what do you tell them?

Cathy: In general, or specifically?

Michal: Let’s start with in general.

Cathy: I say that you’re a producer on podcasts.

Michal: And if you were to get specific – and they say – “Oh! A producer! What does a producer do?” How do you answer that question?

Cathy laughs.

Cathy: That’s a hard question to answer!

Michal laughs.

Cathy: I say you work with the person who is…

Michal: Here, will you come over here actually? The microphone is over here.

Cathy crosses the kitchen and sits next to Michal.

Cathy: I say, your job is to do the background prep and formatting of questions, research, and ideas that the host of the podcast will use and then, you do a lot of the post production.

Michal: Do you know what the post-production work entails?

Cathy: I know that you do a lot of editing, I know that you do a lot of sound editing, I know that it takes a really long time.

Michal: You’ve watched me edit, because I often do it in your house. How long am I in there for sometimes?

Cathy: Oh, sometimes it can be 20 out of a 24-hour day! And sometimes that can be two or three or four days.

Michal: Those are long days. And that’s when I’m very grateful that you can bring me tea and mac and cheese.

Cathy: Mhm. I’m happy to be able to do that.

Michal: It’s a very nice perk. What equipment do I own?

Cathy: I know you own some recording, digital recording equipment, you have a computer, laptop, and a big monitor, and a desktop.

Michal: Do you have a favourite podcast?

Cathy: No.

Michal: What’s the last podcast I produced that you listened to?

Cathy: I listened to the It’s Political podcast about the state of the Liberal government.

Michal: Okay, here’s my provocative question: Do you think I have what it takes to make it in a dying industry?

Cathy: Well, I don’t really know the answer to that question. I worry about that, somewhat. I don’t really know what it would take to make it in a dying industry. I do think that you have the ability to make good connections with the people you have worked with, and they have an inherent level of trust in your ability to perform the job that they want done at the time. I don’t really have a handle on where the industry is going. I think it is going to go somewhere, though. And podcasts certainly seem to have legs on them. But I don’t know where it goes in the digital economy, so I don’t know how that’s going to play itself out. But I think you certainly have skills that people want. And the transition period of where we’re going to end up is tricky.

Michal: That’s a good answer.

Cathy: Like in that interview last night [my mom went to see an author speak at the Reference Library] particularly because the main character was a prof who hosted a podcast…

Michal: The main character of, tell me which book?

Cathy: I Have Some Questions For You by Rebecca Makkai. The main character was a university professor who taught courses in podcasting and film history, and had a podcast about film history. And in the interchange between the moderator and the author, talking about all these things like, “in your Substack,” “in your this,” “in your that,” that certain members of the audience knew about, and many others didn’t really. Like they knew that Substack was a thing, but then one question was, “what’s your Substack?” and I thought they were asking, “what is Substack,” but really they wanted to know the name of it.

Michal: Right.

Cathy laughs.

Cathy: How do you go forward in that industry? Lots of people really talk about, “what’s your favourite podcast? what do you listen to?” I listen to the radio.

Michal: Do you have a favourite radio show?

Cathy: Yes I do. Audio format is hugely important to me — massively important — but the podcast genre is a little out of my reach. My favourite radio show is About Time with the host Tom Allen on CBC.

Michal: It’s a good show.

Cathy: It’s a really good show. He’s the last of a dying breed of broadcasters who really knows how to engage his audience and make it personal, and is incredibly knowledgeable about his field and is able to educate his audience on the finer points of things that you know about broadly, but don’t have the innate background education or experience to be able to know, and he totally can inform you, so that if you really are a musician and you know what he’s talking about, you can argue with him if you don’t agree or agree with his point of view, and if you don’t, man, you have a whole education. He’s excellent.

Michal: He is. I wonder if he’s going to have a podcast.

Trevor, father

Michal: I have a question for you.

Trevor: Go.

Michal: When people ask you, “what does Michal do,” what do you tell them?

Trevor laughs.

Trevor: As little as possible. It's a joke. It’s a joke! It’s a joke! I didn’t mean that.

Michal laughs.

Michal: It’s not a bad answer! So we start with a joke. And then what’s the truth?

Trevor: I say… Michal studied journalism, and her primary job is to work as a researcher and a producer on podcasts. She’s the… behind the… she’s the… podcast-er… the person who does the interviews is the front end and she’s the back end.

Michal: Do you know what I do on a day-to-day basis?

Trevor: You’re spending time, depending on where you are in the cycle of particular podcasts you’re working on, either in a pre-production mode doing research and preparation, and in a production mode is to make sure that the final product is edited… to a large extent I think you do a lot of editing and cleaning up of the raw data that comes out of the interview. And post-production mode is following up and making sure that the end product is what it set out to do.

Michal: Do you know what equipment I own?

Trevor: Yes. I believe you have a professional microphone, recording equipment, and I think you have a computer that is sufficiently robust to be able to handle the bandwidth, literally and figuratively, and you also have editing and transcribing software, I would imagine.

Michal: Ummm… what’s your favourite podcast?

Silence.

Trevor: It’s Political with Althia Raj.

Michal: What podcasts are you listening to right now?

Trevor: I subscribe to multiple podcasts, like Deep State. I don’t know how the hell I subscribe to that, I need to actually unsubscribe from that. But anyway. I subscribe to Café, Preet Bharara… Café is a whole bunch of podcasts, but these are U.S. legal/political podcasts.

Michal: Do you think I have what it takes to make it in a dying industry?

Trevor: Well, given the fact that I tried to discourage you from furthering yourself in this industry because I felt that the odds were stacked against you, and the world is a tough place, and why go into an arena where the opportunity for success is diminishing, rather than be in an arena that was expanding. That was a long answer… but at the bottom line, I think that you’re an agile thinker, and an agile doer, and you will not throw up your hands and say, “Oh my god, this industry is falling apart, get me outta here!” I think you say, “Where can I find the niche that makes sense for me, and I can build a unique value proposition?”

Eli, boyfriend

Michal: What is my job?

Eli: You are a podcast producer. But, I mean, everyone knows what that is. But if I need to expand, I would describe it as... You do the kind of behind the scenes work that goes into making a podcast. That would be research, interviewing. Then there's the post-production part, where it’s like editing.

Michal: Mhm.

Eli: Because people can be long winded at times, and so you kind of read over the script and edit so that you make the person sound more, I guess, the most articulate version of themselves.

Michal: Very nice. Thank you. Do you have any questions about my job?

Eli: Yeah, I guess, how much say do you have in terms of the questions that are asked? Like, how much does your research influence the questions that are asked to the guests on the podcast?

Michal: The answer is… it depends! Often I will write a question line, but ultimately the host gets to decide how much of that question line they actually want to use. And they'll always, of course, change it into their own words, which is very important. But yeah, we provide them with questions we think they should ask and they can ask however much they feel is appropriate.

Eli: Okay. Nice.

Michal: What podcasts are you listening to right now?

Eli: I listen to a lot of podcasts from the Ringer podcast network. I listen to The Bill Simmons Podcast. For some reason, like, this guy's not that funny. It's not that smart, not that insightful, but I just love hearing him talk. I really like to listen to him talk about anything, whether it's sports or movies or pop culture. I listen to The Rewatchables where they do a deep dive into films. They have categories that they use like most rewatchable scene, what's aged, the best or worst, etc. And it's a really fun dive into like a movie that you maybe have not thought that deeply about.

Michal: That’s really fun. What else should I ask you? Um. Do you think I have what it takes to make it in a dying industry?

Eli: Oh yeah. I think you will rise like a phoenix from the ashes. Boy, the industry. Because I think people love listening to podcasts. Obviously I don’t know the financial aspect of it — I mean, I’ve never spent a penny on a podcast, but I suppose it’s a lot from advertising.

Michal: What’s the last podcast episode that I produced that you listened to?

Michal laughs. Eli laughs.

Eli: I feel sheepish… The Jagmeet one?

Michal: Oh yeah. It’s Political. Have you ever thought about having your own podcast?

Eli: Yeah, I have this friend Adam, and our basic relationship is just kind of insulting each other. But there was a while, early pandemic, you know, when everyone was, like, buzzing with creativity and ways to use their time that we kind of knocked around the idea of having a podcast. We thought our banter was pretty good.

Michal: Would it entail just, you insulting each other?

Eli: The idea was kind of like, dudes sitting on the couch and not really knowing how to, like, express affection for each other, so they just insult each other.

Michal: You know that dudes sitting on their couch talking is my least favourite genre of podcast.

Eli: Oh, well, I’m glad I didn’t make this then.

Michal and Eli laugh.

Michal: Is that mean of me to say?

Eli: Not at all.

Richard, Uncle and loyal Vocal Fridays reader

Michal: Richard. Do you know what I do for a living?

Richard: You are a podcast producer.

Michal: What does that mean?

Richard: You are the person who handles, manages, really everything but the on-air delivery. You run the show. You’re not necessarily the on-air talent, but you manage… you run the show.

Michal: I would say it’s a generous answer. I don’t run the whole show.

Richard: Do you handle the recording?

Michal: Often.

Richard: Do you handle the mixing?

Michal: Sometimes. Less so these days.

Richard: Do you write the script?

Michal: Sometimes I contribute to it.

Richard: Okay. Do you get the guests on the show?

Michal: Often. Not always.

Richard: Those are some of the things that I would think that a producer sometimes or often does.

Michal: Those are very good, specific things.

Richard: Do you do the budgeting?

Michal: Definitely not, that’s the executive producer’s job. How would you describe your podcast listening habits?

Richard: I'm an avid podcast listener. I listen to a very small set of podcasts on a daily basis and I am just a huge fan of the podcast format and have been for 15 years.

Michal: What are some of your favourite podcasts?

Richard: My favourite podcasts, not necessarily in order, and I'm just going to look at my podcast app to answer that question. And it's Overcast, by the way. Which I love as an app. I listened to The New Yorker podcast, the Ezra Klein Show from New York Times, the New York Times Book Review podcast, which is weekly.

Michal: That's a good roster. Do you think I have what it takes to make it in a dying industry?

Richard: I definitely do. And it's not a dying industry.

Michal: I like your answer.

Richard: Who says it's a dying industry?

Michal: Today, I am. But it’s a claim that gets thrown around a lot.

Richard: Well, I just don’t buy that. It’s impossible that it’s a dying industry. I think it’s an industry that’s going to thin out, because there are many, many, many podcasts that just aren’t sustainable. But I don’t buy that for a second when the New York Times is launching a New York Times audio app just this week. I don’t know if you’re aware of that.

Michal: I’m not. But I guess I better put it in the newsletter.

Richard: Well, so there’s nothing special about the app. The New York Times launched its app. I downloaded it right away. So what are they doing? They're just consolidating the dozen or so podcasts they have, good or bad. And now it's all in one place. So big deal. I think they did that because it was doable on a small budget. I mean, it’s the New York Times doing something like that. They’re invested in audio.

Michal: I like your optimism.

Richard: Where’s audio going to go? Is it going to morph into something? Sure, but it’s not dying.