A Podcast Beat Sheet - Interview the Cat!
Podcasts are a form of storytelling. That seems like an obvious statement, especially if you’re thinking of those big budget NPR and Gimlet Media documentary style shows, which are known for well-written scripts that hit all the right beats. As a listener, I want to be drawn in right from the opening sequence… I want the show to ask questions and then take me on a journey to the answers.
But even if you’re not making an audio documentary, an interview podcast is still a story and the script needs just as much care.
So why do I hear show after show that starts with the host woodenly introducing the guest before reeling off their accomplishments and titles? I find that kind of boring. I want to be gripped just as strongly by an interview-led show. It shouldn’t feel like homework.
How to write an interview podcast script
To draw me into an interview podcast, there really needs to be two things: A question, and an answer.I mean a really big question, and a really big answer... one that this guest is uniquely positioned to provide.
If we take this episode of Building Good for example - the big question is “how do we do construction in a way that doesn’t rub surrounding communities the wrong way”? It’s never explicitly stated, but that’s what the intro makes you ask yourself.
The big answer is provided by the guest, Brian K. Porter. He’s an Indigenous architect, and spends a lot of the episode explaining how his way of working is more inclusive.
This is the interview podcast’s version of “every story needs a beginning, a middle and an end,” and just like a good novel, there’s more to it than just the beginning, middle and end; those sections are divided further into plot beats.
If you’re a fiction writer it’s pretty likely you’ll have heard of Blake Snyder’s Save the Cat! Beat Sheet. It’s a framework that lots of movies, novels, and plays follow to create a gripping hero’s journey. Studiobinder has a really good breakdown of The Matrix. (if you just want to see Blake Snyder's beat sheet, click here.)
And just like The Matrix, our interview podcasts can be broken down into beats.
So with Blake Synder’s Save the Cat! beat sheet as inspiration, here is Jay Cockburn’s “Interview the Cat” beat sheet. (And here’s a blank version that you can use for your own podcasts!)
Let’s run through this beat sheet using an episode of the Growth Effect, because I’m vain and I wrote this show.
Strong opening image
How many times have you hit play on a podcast, found the first ten seconds to be a little flat, and gone straight to the skip button? The most important part of a podcast is the opening, so put something that really grabs the listener up front.
You could choose a teaser clip from the interview, one that lets the listener know what the interview is about without giving too much away. It should make you think “wow, I want to know more.”
Importantly, it implies the theme of the episode, without necessarily making it too explicit.
The first thing you hear in this episode of the Growth Effect is the theme music and Vivian Kaye making a strong statement of intent, which sets the tone for the episode. It’s about entrepreneurship, but it's also about standing out from the crowd, and having to fight harder for yourself because of that.
This strong opening image doesn’t have to be a cold open clip. It could be a vivid description from the host, or a particularly gripping piece of archival audio.
Theme Stated
This is where your theme goes from implicitly stated to explicitly stated. We set the stakes. We’ve grabbed our listener’s attention with the opening, and now we are telling them what the topic is and why it’s important.
Your host voiceover should make it obvious what that big question is. In this episode the Big Question is… “How do we make entrepreneurship more diverse?”
That question is actually multiple questions, as all Big Questions should be. It’s also “why should we make entrepreneurship more diverse?” and “what’s it like to be an entrepreneur who isn’t a white male?” (Two questions that kind of have the same answer!). We ask the Big Question, in a way that is relatable to the listener.
Set-up
Now we hype up the guest and position them as the best person to help us answer The Big Question. Our guest is The Big Answer, and they have all the small answers to the smaller questions that are part of The Big Question.
This works best when you do more than just list their titles and achievements. You explain who they are and a little of their lived experience. When I’m prepping for an interview, I often include a few questions to warm the guest up. I have them talk about themselves and their life story. It rarely makes the edit, but it gives me material to work with for the set-up. In this case, Vivian alludes to who she is, and why she does what she does.
The final line of the introduction should lead seamlessly into the interviewee’s opening line… in The Growth Effect we have a short advert for HSBC that runs between the intro and the interview, so I used that final line to tease the interview and keep you listening past the ad break.
Part 2: Interview
You might be thinking that interviews aren’t scripted and…. Well they aren’t, but they are written. You write your questions and you edit the interview, so you are still telling the story.
I prep my interviews with a whole bunch of prewritten questions and follow ups. It ends up looking like a flow chart with different directions that the interview could take. A rough map from beat to beat. You can’t control exactly what your guest says, but you should know why you’re interviewing them and have a rough expectation of how they might answer each question. It’s not quite writing a script, but you are writing.
So when I put these beats here - know that your recording doesn’t have to follow them, because your edit can make it happen.
These beats are much more of a suggestion than the introduction beats. Interviews should be conversational with a good flow and structure, so don’t force it too hard.
Catalyst
Open the interview with really strong tape. One of the best ways to do this is to start on your guest’s “catalyst” moment. That point where something happened that led to the reason you are interviewing them. If we look at Vivian Kaye, she wanted a product and it didn’t exist for Black women.
Exploration
This is where you split the Big Question into lots of smaller questions. These will be individual to each guest and topic, but try to answer the questions you know your listener will want to hear.
A good rhythm to establish is to ask a question around a broad topic, then follow up with a request for personal experience of that, if the guest doesn’t provide it immediately. Then you might ask, OK so what should we, or others, do about it?
This will be the bulk of your interview, and I could write a whole separate article on crafting interview questions, but the best hosts are great listeners and know how to seize a topic and run with it. The best producers know what answers they want to hear, and how to get there with questions.
That doesn’t mean you’re putting words in your interviewees mouth, or asking leading questions. It means you’ve done your research and booked the right guest which has enabled you to do the right preparation.
Split in two
This is an optional beat. This is where you might explore a slightly different topic that the guest also happens to be an expert in. For The Growth Effect, the show’s mandate is to interview people who run rapidly growing businesses.
Sarah Stockdale: So you grew to seven figures without running a paid ad. Like I'm a growth marketer and I teach this stuff. This is what I've been doing my whole career, and this is the best story. like I want to know every... tell me everythingThis is your podcast’s subplot. Its wild romantic storyline that isn’t a core part of the plot, but also adds a little extra something for the listener. It stops the show running out of steam.
If the change in direction feels a little rough, you might want to break it up with some music. If you have a midroll ad spot then this could be a good place to run it before returning to the new topic.
All is (not) lost
We’re starting to wrap up the show now, so we start asking questions that look to the future. We can return to our Big Question or stay in our subplot, but either way let’s start asking about solutions.
In an ideal world, we’ll have some. Our guest doesn’t always, so the interview might be ending on a bleak note. That’s why this beat can be either “All is lost” or “All is not lost.”
Final image
The most powerful way to end an interview is with an insightful thought, or a big laugh. Both of these keep the listener wanting more, and hopefully hitting play next. In this episode of The Growth Effect Vivian talks about how the most important thing is the effect her business and work is having on her son. It’s a lovely moment to end on.
Part 3: Outro
Moment of reflection
Give the listener time for that final image to sink in. This could be five seconds of music, or it could be the host writing their own reflections on the interview. This ensures the episode stays with the listener and is also useful as a recap of the episode’s main points.
Credits
This article was written by Jay Cockburn, with editing by digital producer Emily Latimer. This beat sheet is a Vocal Fry Studios production, Katie Jensen is our principal. Thanks for reading.
